很多人不清楚這次危機為何這麼恐怖。                

希臘倒就倒,像冰島一樣,干我何事?

這次危機的發生,

是因為希臘這個國家

相對於其他歐元國家比較,

採取比較不負責任的金融運作

(財政赤字、赤字開支、增發公債、加印鈔票等

不知道是不是因為辦了奧運?

咦?現在有哪個國家不是這麼做的?

請指出看!)

造成貨幣危機。

 

由於民眾和他國不信任希臘公債(借據)

因此造成歐元系統停滯,

而通貨currency就像是電流一樣,

需要不停的流動

要不然就會死亡。

歐元一死,牽連太大,

如果他們不迅速地、讓人滿意地處理好,

這絕對會變成壓死駱駝的最後一根稻草。

OEDC警告:希臘債務危機

像「伊波拉」病毒一樣的蔓延

歐洲必須立即採取行動才行

fig010.gif 前往金融海嘯本尊現身!(1)


Greek debt crisis spreading 'like Ebola'

and Europe must act now, OECD warns

The Greek debt crisis is spreading “like Ebola” and Europe must act now to protect the stability the financial markets, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

Published: 11:46AM BST 28 Apr 2010

 

The Greek debt crisis is spreading like Ebola and Europe must act quickly, the OECD warned. The Parthenon in Athens, pictured beneath an EU flag. Photo: EPA

“It’s not a question of the danger of contagion; contagion has already happened,” OECD secretary general Angel Gurria said.

“This is like Ebola. When you realise you have it you have to cut your leg off in order to survive,” he added, saying the crisis is "threatening the stability of the financial system".

 Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, called for Eurozone countries to "urgently" agree a bail-out for Greece or risk a further decline in stock market confidence.

Mr Darling said it was "absolutely essential" that Greece's problems were sorted out "quickly, effectively and decisively", following a torrid 24 hours for world markets.

Asked on LBC Radio about the drop in the FTSE on Tuesday, the Chancellor said stock markets rise and fall but added: "That's my argument about the situation in Greece – we have got to make sure that it gets sorted out.

"But the primary responsibilities are for the other members of the euro group.

"They know that they have got to sort it out. They have promised money, and what I would say is they need to make that money available as soon as possible."

He added: "If we can sort out the problems in Greece quickly, then that will make people more confident."

The crisis in Greece sent stock markets and the euro reeling for a second day as fears grew that it would not be able pay its debts.

A widespread stock market sell-off was triggered on Tuesday when ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut Greek debt to junk status, while a downgrade to Portugal reignited worries about a growing eurozone crisis.

As the European Union said that it would hold an emergency summit on Greece, the Frankfurt stock market slid 1.93pc and Paris 2.16pc in midmorning trading.

London's FTSE 100 fell 1pc, one day after suffering its biggest one-day loss since November. Lisbon tumbled 6pc and Madrid fell 3pc, while Athens was down 1.69pc after heavy recent losses.

"Any hope that the Greek issue was finally coming under control took a huge blow yesterday with the country's sovereign debt being downgraded to junk," said Ben Potter, an analysts at IG Markets.

Downgrades unsettle investors  

The debt crisis also unsettled Asian markets, with Tokyo dropping 2.6pc and Hong Kong 1.3pc.

Wall Street shed 1.9pc overnight, with the Dow Jones index finishing under the symbolic 11,000-point level.

"The downgrading of Portuguese and Greek debt has spooked investors, as there is a very real fear that other European countries could be downgraded too," said Owen Ireland, an analyst at ODL Securities.

In the foreign exchange market on Wednesday, the European single currency hit a new one-year dollar low. The euro plunged to 1.3143 dollars – last seen in April 2009 – as traders fretted over a debt crisis that could spread to other nations such as Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland.


Bond yields reflect default fears

In bond market trade on Wednesday, the yield on 10-year Greek sovereign bonds soared to 11.076pc, the highest 10-year level ever recorded in the eurozone, after 9.73pc on Tuesday.

"The S&P downgrades to Portugal and Greece brought a fresh bout of fears to equity and credit markets alike, with concerns over contagion effects continuing to rise," said Deidre Ryan, an analysis at Goodbody's stockbrokers.

"Along with the spike in peripheral euro-area bond yields, the euro also continues to weaken, falling below the $1.32 level to its lowest level in a year."

Debt-laden Greece has appealed for emergency loans totalling €45bn from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.

The funds would be made available on condition that Greece implemented tough austerity measures, currently the subject of talks with the EU and the IMF.


Emergency summit

In response the latest news, the European Union has called an emergency summit on Greece, with eurozone leaders set to meet next month.

EU President Herman Van Rompuy said leaders from the 16 nations using the single currency would meet in Brussels "by around May 10" to try to agree how to set up a massive rescue operation.

Speaking in Tokyo, Mr Van Rompuy said there was "no question" of Greece defaulting.


Greek strikes

Across in Athens on Wednesday, strikes and protests erupted as its crisis-hit economy reeled from another scathing downgrade of its debt and the stock exchange took emergency measures to deter speculators.

Amid a growing recession, a general strike has been called for May 5 against austerity cuts that the government is enforcing to slash the rampant public deficit and debt worth nearly €300bn.

Oil prices also sank on Wednesday, shaken by the Greek crisis and the strong US currency, which makes dollar-priced crude more expensive for foreign buyers.

原文(全)連結:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/7644709/Greek-debt-crisis-spreading-like-Ebola-and-Europe-must-act-now-OECD-warns.html

 

fig010.gif 前往金融海嘯本尊現身!(1)

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  • .
  • 海嘯到達義大利就不妙了 義大利是歐洲第四大經濟體 排行僅次於德法英  到時候看德法如何反應
    美元在德法倒下來之前都高枕無憂  萬一德法都不行了 還有英日作墊背
    如果 德法英日 都海嘯  那美元就可以改為3.0版 (version 1.0 是 1944-1971, version 2.0 是 1971- ? )
    從此國王就更可以永遠稱霸
  • cheloan
  • 嗯嗯~ 各位可以去youtube 找一下 57金錢爆這個節目,之前有做庚年庚月變盤系列,如果有在投資股市可以參考一下,不是說一定準,是他分析的角度還滿特別的。
    如果是要關注通膨方面的訊息,台股斬首行動開戰(5/6) 20100504 ,可以從這一篇的第5篇開始看起,並延申至之後歐元相關的視頻,滿有趣的~。 有時間各位朋友可以看一看。
  • 小茜
  • 我也是57金錢爆的基本觀眾耶,今年四月以來它們的節目提到很多國際面的東西和資料分析,確實很不錯,想得到第一手資訊的朋友可每天晚上0755分轉至57台收看!另外推薦一個無名小站的法意部落格,是幾個年輕人組成的,看法和提出的資料都頗有可看性!我都是每天固定上網看立天老師以及法意的資訊,交叉分析,因為有部分的看法和理論根據是相同的,只是推演的方向和著重的層面略有不同!基本上我都很喜歡,所以推薦給大家!
    二樓的同學好久沒出現了,要多來爬爬文嘛,我很喜歡你的知識分享,獲益良多!感謝立天老師的部落格,讓我可以讀到很多精采的文章和第一手的消息!老師辛苦了!我最欣賞你,你的無私及辛苦幫助我們可以趁早打造自己的救生筏,這功德真的是無量的!
  • cheloan
  • 是阿~ 不是推這個節目拉~ 只是他們有時討論話題還滿不錯的,雖然比較玩票性質,但是某些數據也是很值得參考一番,不會像隔壁台是死多頭.....。

    太久沒來主要是在攪一個東西,不過不說也罷,跟老師這邊主題比較無關~,我還是有在一直follow老師部落格~ 只是潛水比較久,哈~。
  • Financial Times
  • (Financial Times) —

    14 May 2010

    The telephone has not stopped ringing at the Rand refinery in South Africa this week. Panicking German dealers and banks have been desperate to get their hands on krugerrands… The refinery, which usually sells 2,000 coins to each customer at a time, says that last week it received an order from one German bank for 30,000 coins. Another bank requested 15,000 coins…

    Frank Ziegler, head of precious metals at BayernLB, one of Germany’s largest wholesale suppliers of gold, says: “People are buying krugerrands like crazy.” The frenzy pushed gold prices to a nominal high of $1,248.95 a troy ounce on Friday while the euro price surged through €1,000 an ounce for the first time. Adjusted for inflation, however, gold prices are still a long way from their all-time high above $2,300 an ounce in 1980.

    Although coins account for a small part of the market, they are one of the best indicators of investor sentiment towards the precious metal… …
    Other important factors are supporting prices: institutional investors are pouring billions into bullion-backed exchange traded funds; central banks have reversed 20 years of selling gold; some, including the Chinese central bank, are buying it; and mine gold supply growth has stagnated.
    …..
    there is no indication that Germans are ready to stop buying. Panicked by the possible inflationary implications of this week’s €750bn bail-out, they have been snapping up gold coins and small bars at a faster rate than in the aftermath of the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy.
    …..
    The European Central Bank says its government bond purchases will be “sterilised” by operations to remove inflation risks. But Martin Siegel, manager of Westgold, a dealer of gold in Frankfurt, says people “are not as dumb as economists. They believe there is going to be inflation and are buying gold to protect themselves.”

    German investors are notoriously wary about inflation. While few are old enough to remember the hyperinflation that wrecked Germany during the Weimar Republic in the 1920s, the episode remains etched into the national psyche: archive film from the period has been running on the news in recent days.

    The appetite for coins has been so intense that shortages are developing. “In the European market there is a shortage of krugerrands,” says Mr Ziegler. As a result, the premium paid for krugerrands in the secondary market has risen from about 2 per cent to 6-8 per cent.
  • Marko Papic, Robert Reinfrank and Peter Zeihan
  • Germany, Greece and Exiting the Eurozone

    Germany, Greece and Exiting the Eurozone


    May 18, 2010


    Rumors of the imminent collapse of the eurozone continue to swirl despite the Europeans’ best efforts to hold the currency union together. Some accounts in the financial world have even suggested that Germany’s frustration with the crisis could cause Berlin to quit the eurozone — as soon as this past weekend, according to some — while at the most recent gathering of European leaders French President Nicolas Sarkozy apparently threatened to bolt the bloc if Berlin did not help Greece. Meanwhile, many in Germany — including Chancellor Angela Merkel herself at one point — have called for the creation of a mechanism by which Greece — or the eurozone’s other over-indebted, uncompetitive economies — could be kicked out of the eurozone in the future should they not mend their “irresponsible” spending habits.



    Rumors, hints, threats, suggestions and information “from well-placed sources” all seem to point to the hot topic in Europe at the moment, namely, the reconstitution of the eurozone whether by a German exit or a Greek expulsion. We turn to this topic with the question of whether such an option even exists.

    The Geography of the European Monetary Union
    As we consider the future of the euro, it is important to remember that the economic underpinnings of paper money are not nearly as important as the political underpinnings. Paper currencies in use throughout the world today hold no value without the underlying political decision to make them the legal tender of commercial activity. This means a government must be willing and capable enough to enforce the currency as a legal form of debt settlement, and refusal to accept paper currency is, within limitations, punishable by law.

    The trouble with the euro is that it attempts to overlay a monetary dynamic on a geography that does not necessarily lend itself to a single economic or political “space.” The eurozone has a single central bank, the European Central Bank (ECB), and therefore has only one monetary policy, regardless of whether one is located in Northern or Southern Europe. Herein lies the fundamental geographic problem of the euro.

    Europe is the second-smallest continent on the planet but has the second-largest number of states packed into its territory. This is not a coincidence. Europe’s multitude of peninsulas, large islands and mountain chains create the geographic conditions that often allow even the weakest political authority to persist. Thus, the Montenegrins have held out against the Ottomans, just as the Irish have against the English.

    Despite this patchwork of political authorities, the Continent’s plentiful navigable rivers, large bays and serrated coastlines enable the easy movement of goods and ideas across Europe. This encourages the accumulation of capital due to the low costs of transport while simultaneously encouraging the rapid spread of technological advances, which has allowed the various European states to become astonishingly rich: Five of the top 10 world economies hail from the Continent despite their relatively small populations.

    Europe’s network of rivers and seas are not integrated via a single dominant river or sea network, however, meaning capital generation occurs in small, sequestered economic centers. To this day, and despite significant political and economic integration, there is no European New York. In Europe’s case, the Danube has Vienna, the Po has Milan, the Baltic Sea has Stockholm, the Rhineland has both Amsterdam and Frankfurt and the Thames has London. This system of multiple capital centers is then overlaid on Europe’s states, which jealously guard control over their capital and, by extension, their banking systems.

    Despite a multitude of different centers of economic — and by extension, political — power, some states, due to geography, are unable to access any capital centers of their own. Much of the Club Med states are geographically disadvantaged. Aside from the Po Valley of northern Italy — and to an extent the Rhone — southern Europe lacks a single river useful for commerce. Consequently, Northern Europe is more urban, industrial and technocratic while Southern Europe tends to be more rural, agricultural and capital-poor.

    Introducing the Euro
    Given the barrage of economic volatility and challenges the eurozone has confronted in recent quarters and the challenges presented by housing such divergent geography and history under one monetary roof, it is easy to forget why the eurozone was originally formed.

    The Cold War made the European Union possible. For centuries, Europe was home to feuding empires and states. After World War II, it became the home of devastated peoples whose security was the responsibility of the United States. Through the Bretton Woods agreement, the United States crafted an economic grouping that regenerated Western Europe’s economic fortunes under a security rubric that Washington firmly controlled. Freed of security competition, the Europeans not only were free to pursue economic growth, they also enjoyed nearly unlimited access to the American market to fuel that growth. Economic integration within Europe to maximize these opportunities made perfect sense. The United States encouraged the economic and political integration because it gave a political underpinning to a security alliance it imposed on Europe, i.e., NATO. Thus, the European Economic Community — the predecessor to today’s European Union — was born.

    When the United States abandoned the gold standard in 1971 (for reasons largely unconnected to things European), Washington essentially abrogated the Bretton Woods currency pegs that went with it. One result was a European panic. Floating currencies raised the inevitability of currency competition among the European states, the exact sort of competition that contributed to the Great Depression 40 years earlier. Almost immediately, the need to limit that competition sharpened, first with currency coordination efforts still concentrating on the U.S. dollar and then from 1979 on with efforts focused on the deutschmark. The specter of a unified Germany in 1989 further invigorated economic integration. The euro was in large part an attempt to give Berlin the necessary incentives so that it would not depart the EU project.

    But to get Berlin on board with the idea of sharing its currency with the rest of Europe, the eurozone was modeled after the Bundesbank and its deutschmark. To join the eurozone, a country must abide by rigorous “convergence criteria” designed to synchronize the economy of the acceding country with Germany’s economy. The criteria include a budget deficit of less than 3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP); government debt levels of less than 60 percent of GDP; annual inflation no higher than 1.5 percentage points above the average of the lowest three members’ annual inflation; and a two-year trial period during which the acceding country’s national currency must float within a plus-or-minus 15 percent currency band against the euro.

    As cracks have begun to show in both the political and economic support for the eurozone, however, it is clear that the convergence criteria failed to overcome divergent geography and history. Greece’s violations of the Growth and Stability Pact are clearly the most egregious, but essentially all eurozone members — including France and Germany, which helped draft the rules — have contravened the rules from the very beginning.

    Mechanics of a Euro Exit
    The EU treaties as presently constituted contractually obligate every EU member state — except Denmark and the United Kingdom, which negotiated opt-outs — to become a eurozone member state at some point. Forcible expulsion or self-imposed exit is technically illegal, or at best would require the approval of all 27 member states (never mind the question about why a troubled eurozone member would approve its own expulsion). Even if it could be managed, surely there are current and soon-to-be eurozone members that would be wary of establishing such a precedent, especially when their fiscal situation could soon be similar to Athens’ situation.

    One creative option making the rounds would allow the European Union to technically expel members without breaking the treaties. It would involve setting up a new European Union without the offending state (say, Greece) and establishing within the new institutions a new eurozone as well. Such manipulations would not necessarily destroy the existing European Union; its major members would “simply” recreate the institutions without the member they do not much care for.

    Though creative, the proposed solution it is still rife with problems. In such a reduced eurozone, Germany would hold undisputed power, something the rest of Europe might not exactly embrace. If France and the Benelux countries reconstituted the eurozone with Berlin, Germany’s economy would go from constituting 26.8 percent of eurozone version 1.0’s overall output to 45.6 percent of eurozone version 2.0’s overall output. Even states that would be expressly excluded would be able to get in a devastating parting shot: The southern European economies could simply default on any debt held by entities within the countries of the new eurozone.

    With these political issues and complications in mind, we turn to the two scenarios of eurozone reconstitution that have garnered the most attention in the media.

    Scenario 1: Germany Reinstitutes the Deutschmark
    The option of leaving the eurozone for Germany boils down to the potential liabilities that Berlin would be on the hook for if Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland followed Greece down the default path. As Germany prepares itself to vote on its 123 billion euro contribution to the 750 billion euro financial aid mechanism for the eurozone — which sits on top of the 23 billion euros it already approved for Athens alone — the question of whether “it is all worth it” must be on top of every German policymaker’s mind.

    This is especially the case as political opposition to the bailout mounts among German voters and Merkel’s coalition partners and political allies. In the latest polls, 47 percent of Germans favor adopting the deutschmark. Furthermore, Merkel’s governing coalition lost a crucial state-level election May 9 in a sign of mounting dissatisfaction with her Christian Democratic Union and its coalition ally, the Free Democratic Party. Even though the governing coalition managed to push through the Greek bailout, there are now serious doubts that Merkel will be able to do the same with the eurozone-wide mechanism May 21.

    Germany would therefore not be leaving the eurozone to save its economy or extricate itself from its own debts, but rather to avoid the financial burden of supporting the Club Med economies and their ability to service their 3 trillion euro mountain of debt. At some point, Germany may decide to cut its losses — potentially as much as 500 billion euros, which is the approximate exposure of German banks to Club Med debt — and decide that further bailouts are just throwing money into a bottomless pit. Furthermore, while Germany could always simply rely on the ECB to break all of its rules and begin the policy of purchasing the debt of troubled eurozone governments with newly created money (“quantitative easing”), that in itself would also constitute a bailout. The rest of the eurozone, including Germany, would be paying for it through the weakening of the euro.

    Were this moment to dawn on Germany it would have to mean that the situation had deteriorated significantly. As STRATFOR has recently argued, the eurozone provides Germany with considerable economic benefits. Its neighbors are unable to undercut German exports with currency depreciation, and German exports have in turn gained in terms of overall eurozone exports on both the global and eurozone markets. Since euro adoption, unit labor costs in Club Med have increased relative to Germany’s by approximately 25 percent, further entrenching Germany’s competitive edge.

    Before Germany could again use the deutschmark, Germany would first have to reinstate its central bank (the Bundesbank), withdraw its reserves from the ECB, print its own currency and then re-denominate the country’s assets and liabilities in deutschmarks. While it would not necessarily be a smooth or easy process, Germany could reintroduce its national currency with far more ease than other eurozone members could.

    The deutschmark had a well-established reputation for being a store of value, as the renowned Bundesbank directed Germany’s monetary policy. If Germany were to reintroduce its national currency, it is highly unlikely that Europeans would believe that Germany had forgotten how to run a central bank — Germany’s institutional memory would return quickly, re-establishing the credibility of both the Bundesbank and, by extension, the deutschmark.

    As Germany would be replacing a weaker and weakening currency with a stronger and more stable one, if market participants did not simply welcome the exchange, they would be substantially less resistant to the change than what could be expected in other eurozone countries. Germany would therefore not necessarily have to resort to militant crackdowns on capital flows to halt capital trying to escape conversion.

    Germany would probably also be able to re-denominate all its debts in the deutschmark via bond swaps. Market participants would accept this exchange because they would probably have far more faith in a deutschmark backed by Germany than in a euro backed by the remaining eurozone member states.

    Reinstituting the deutschmark would still be an imperfect process, however, and there would likely be some collateral damage, particularly to Germany’s financial sector. German banks own much of the debt issued by Club Med, which would likely default on repayment in the event Germany parted with the euro. If it reached the point that Germany was going to break with the eurozone, those losses would likely pale in comparison to the costs — be they economic or political — of remaining within the eurozone and financially supporting its continued existence.

    Scenario 2: Greece Leaves the Euro
    If Athens were able to control its monetary policy, it would ostensibly be able to “solve” the two major problems currently plaguing the Greek economy.

    First, Athens could ease its financing problems substantially. The Greek central bank could print money and purchase government debt, bypassing the credit markets. Second, reintroducing its currency would allow Athens to then devalue it, which would stimulate external demand for Greek exports and spur economic growth. This would obviate the need to undergo painful “internal devaluation” via austerity measures that the Greeks have been forced to impose as a condition for their bailout by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the EU.

    If Athens were to reinstitute its national currency with the goal of being able to control monetary policy, however, the government would first have to get its national currency circulating (a necessary condition for devaluation).

    The first practical problem is that no one is going to want this new currency, principally because it would be clear that the government would only be reintroducing it to devalue it. Unlike during the Eurozone accession process — where participation was motivated by the actual and perceived benefits of adopting a strong/stable currency and receiving lower interest rates, new funds and the ability to transact in many more places — “de-euroizing” offers no such incentives for market participants:

    The drachma would not be a store of value, given that the objective in reintroducing it is to reduce its value.
    The drachma would likely only be accepted within Greece, and even there it would not be accepted everywhere — a condition likely to persist for some time.
    Reinstituting the drachma unilaterally would likely see Greece cast out of the eurozone, and therefore also the European Union as per rules explained above.
    The government would essentially be asking investors and its own population to sign a social contract that the government clearly intends to abrogate in the future, if not immediately once it is able to. Therefore, the only way to get the currency circulating would be by force.

    The goal would not be to convert every euro-denominated asset into drachmas but rather to get a sufficiently large chunk of the assets so that the government could jumpstart the drachma’s circulation. To be done effectively, the government would want to minimize the amount of money that could escape conversion by either being withdrawn or transferred into asset classes easy to conceal from discovery and appropriation. This would require capital controls and shutting down banks and likely also physical force to prevent even more chaos on the streets of Athens than seen at present. Once the money was locked down, the government would then forcibly convert banks’ holdings by literally replacing banks’ holdings with a similar amount in the national currency. Greeks could then only withdraw their funds in newly issued drachmas that the government gave the banks to service those requests. At the same time, all government spending/payments would be made in the national currency, boosting circulation. The government also would have to show willingness to prosecute anyone using euros on the black market, lest the newly instituted drachma become completely worthless.

    Since nobody save the government would want to do this, at the first hint that the government would be moving in this direction, the first thing the Greeks will want to do is withdraw all funds from any institution where their wealth would be at risk. Similarly, the first thing that investors would do — and remember that Greece is as capital-poor as Germany is capital-rich — is cut all exposure. This would require that the forcible conversion be coordinated and definitive, and most important, it would need to be as unexpected as possible.

    Realistically, the only way to make this transition without completely unhinging the Greek economy and shredding Greece’s social fabric would be to coordinate with organizations that could provide assistance and oversight. If the IMF, ECB or eurozone member states were to coordinate the transition period and perhaps provide some backing for the national currency’s value during that transition period, the chances of a less-than-completely-disruptive transition would increase.

    It is difficult to imagine circumstances under which such support would not dwarf the 110 billion euro bailout already on the table. For if Europe’s populations are so resistant to the Greek bailout now, what would they think about their governments assuming even more risk by propping up a former eurozone country’s entire financial system so that the country could escape its debt responsibilities to the rest of the eurozone?

    The European Dilemma
    Europe therefore finds itself being tied in a Gordian knot. On one hand, the Continent’s geography presents a number of incongruities that cannot be overcome without a Herculean (and politically unpalatable) effort on the part of Southern Europe and (equally unpopular) accommodation on the part of Northern Europe. On the other hand, the cost of exit from the eurozone — particularly at a time of global financial calamity, when the move would be in danger of precipitating an even greater crisis — is daunting to say the least.

    The resulting conundrum is one in which reconstitution of the eurozone may make sense at some point down the line. But the interlinked web of economic, political, legal and institutional relationships makes this nearly impossible. The cost of exit is prohibitively high, regardless of whether it makes sense.



    By Marko Papic, Robert Reinfrank and Peter Zeihan
  • 動物園
  • 肉食性動物把草食性動物吃完後 (1492-1914),還有可以吃其他肉食性動物 (1914-1945).
    肉食性動物只要有肉可吃就還不會餓死 (1945-1971).
    沒肉可吃只好... ... (1971 - ?)
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